Nunya's Gambling Lesson of the Month - July 2015

NunyaBidness

Active Member
Oddsb Poker Champ
Be Willing To Give Up Small Edges If They May Cost You Large Edges Later

or

Kelly Isn't The Only Criterion

I know, I've said it before, take every edge you can get, no matter how small. The longer the road, the more the bumps smooth out. But sometimes this is not true.

Let's imagine you're in a poker game with a soft opponent.

You raise small with QQ, and he overbets the pot and shoves all in. Before you can decide what to do, he shows you his hand, it is AK. Automatic call, right?

You've played with him before, and you know that when he doubles his stake he is going to quit the game. If he goes bust, he'll quit as well.

From a pure EV perspective in a vacuum this hand is an automatic call. But you know you can grind him down without playing these large variance situations. So, in this case, the proper play is to fold.

So, how does this apply to sportsbetting?

When poker Black Friday hit, I had been messing around with sports on the side, but not too serious. I realized quickly that making a living as an internet poker player was pretty much over. My choices were figure out how to beat sports, commit suicide, play poker live full time, or get a job (in pretty much that order of preference).

While trying to figure out sports I found a futures market that was WAY off. I estimated a 20% edge on several bets. I took the remaining bits of my bankroll that hadn't been stolen or frozen, and put about 80% of them on these gigantic edges. Six months later, my bets paid off with nearly a 50% profit.

But what happened in the interim? I had crippled myself financially, I was finding all sorts of daily bets I could make, and could only bet 20% of what I would've had my whole bankroll been available. While I grew my bankroll a considerable amount over that 6 months, I could've done much better by giving up on those bets. The daily small % churn was much more valuable than I realized it. I increased my chances of going broke and reduced my profitability.

If bankroll is a concern, always ask yourself, what else could I do with this money in the interim? Donald Trump does not win Presidency at -6000 is free money. It cashes 100% of the time. How much interest could you earn with that same money invested somewhere else in the interim, however?

The corollary to this is what I call The Hustler's Law.

Be willing to play at negative expectation if it gives you large edges later.

Throwing away money is the MOST painful thing I can think of. But sometimes it pays dividends.

In the poker world you see this with successful cash game players. A good player is willing to splash around in pots and give action in order to get action later. A tight guy who only plays premium hands is going to have a huge edge when he gets the money in, but he'll find his opponents have folded as soon as he has entered the pot.

In the pool world, a hustler may let you win a few games at $10 a piece, and then sudddenly when we've upped the stakes to $100 a game, he's suddenly improved.

In the sports world, we accomplish this by giving square action back to the books. If you're only pounding +EV lines, small markets, and props, the books are going to find out about you fast. The more square bets you throw in, the longer you're going to last.

Throw in some square parlays. Spend some time in the casino/poker room. Bet the super bowl at EVERY book. The account you save, may be your own!
 

Will

Administrator
Staff member
Great and timely post.

A wise Nunya once said ( and i am paraphrasing ) if you do not want to be limited at a sportsbook never withdraw....
I have found out this morning he was right ;(...
 

Wilbo86

Member
What sort of volume in relation to you +EV bets do you think you need to be putting into square plays to be in anyway covering your tracks? I've started taking opposite sides of lines at different books where I can get a low enough vig.
 

NunyaBidness

Active Member
Oddsb Poker Champ
What sort of volume in relation to you +EV bets do you think you need to be putting into square plays to be in anyway covering your tracks? I've started taking opposite sides of lines at different books where I can get a low enough vig.

That's one of the best ways to do it! You should be able to find a decent # of 0 cent arbs on MLB which can shuffle some money around and give the illusion of action.

It's a tough spot to know exactly how much to do it. I would love to talk to an auditor at a major book and see what exactly they look for. Different books have different methods for sure. I'm pretty sure some of them go strictly by amounts in your account. One book cut me off the day after my account hit 10k when I'd been using exactly the same pattern for 6 months straight with no cover.

Another book I was hitting the EXACT same bets as a friend of mine, I would bet our accounts were 95% correlated, only difference is I was maxing everything and he wasn't. I got kicked out after 4 months, and he still has an account.

It's tough to say exactly how much action you should give. You don't want to cut too deeply into your profits; so finding all the neutral EV bets you can find can be great. I hate to say follow touts, but sometimes just getting action in on major sports that you wouldn't normally bet is a great cover.
 

NunyaBidness

Active Member
Oddsb Poker Champ
Great and timely post.

A wise Nunya once said ( and i am paraphrasing ) if you do not want to be limited at a sportsbook never withdraw....
I have found out this morning he was right ;(...

Don't say I didn't warn you. . .

I'm in a bad spot right now, built up a big account at a site beating some small markets. They cut me off on those markets but left me with huge limits in golf. Now I'm not sure if its safe to withdraw figuring they'll go "we just cut him off" and not look into the account, or if I'm going to lose my golf hookup.

Once you know what you're doing in this game, managing outs is AT LEAST 50% of it.
 

Wilbo86

Member
I just got limited at a place and now my max bet on an MMA money line is about $20, the account is basically useless to me now.

While we're on the topic, does anyone know if books track log-ins by IP - for catching guys using multiple accounts?
 

Vaughany

Active Member
I just got limited at a place and now my max bet on an MMA money line is about $20, the account is basically useless to me now.

While we're on the topic, does anyone know if books track log-ins by IP - for catching guys using multiple accounts?
Euro account?

Regarding IPs yes I believe they do. I have had mates and bitches create multiple accounts for me on sites like paddypower and they always got limited pretty much straight away.
 

Sky

Member
I read an article some time ago, i forget the author but it was some guy who used to work for a large book and knew the ins and outs of the books security and monitoring of accounts. From memory there wer protocols in place which red flagged user accounts to be assessed by their security team. stuff like multiple users logining in from same ip, multiple accounts hitting lines at the same time, multiple accounts making similar bets over a period of time, betting the max, how much yur winning, some market specific betting activity, and accounts that are consistently beating the closing price. other shit too i forget but the gyst of it was sophisticated methods of analysing betting activity. the book he worked for also tracked to some extent your browsing history.. forget how.
Anyways might be talking out my arse a little coz i read it a while ago so take it for what its worth
 

NunyaBidness

Active Member
Oddsb Poker Champ
I just got limited at a place and now my max bet on an MMA money line is about $20, the account is basically useless to me now.

While we're on the topic, does anyone know if books track log-ins by IP - for catching guys using multiple accounts?

Yes, absolutely.
 

ezflyer

Active Member
I sure as hell don't.. I'm happy to supplement my income by 10-15k per year on Mma, tennis, etc... I gave up on poker. Don't have the patience anymore.
 

Napes21

Active Member
Defer to Nunya on this but not sure if it is possible to grind out enough of a living to live comfortably on sports gambling alone unless you have access to a very deep bankroll and books with very high limits. Or you could tout and try and keep a customer base. Unless you live in bumfuck middle-America somewhere with a very low cost of living.
 

opinionator

Member
i'm australian. i play online poker. i grind 6 tables of zoom PLO every day, i run at about 1000 hands an hour when i'm focused. but i can see the writing on the wall with russian AI programmers sending their bots after my precious yankee dollars ... typical week or so: http://imgur.com/SCgNl6S
 

mmaed

Member
Defer to Nunya on this but not sure if it is possible to grind out enough of a living to live comfortably on sports gambling alone unless you have access to a very deep bankroll and books with very high limits. Or you could tout and try and keep a customer base. Unless you live in bumfuck middle-America somewhere with a very low cost of living.
Im american. I would think the only feasible way would be to move to las vegas. There are dozens of sportsbooks. Im not sure how many of them take mma bets.
 

ezflyer

Active Member
Those prices etc all suck compared to 5d , etc
 
Top