General MMA Discussion & Future Lines- 2019

Discussion in 'Gambling and Betting Forum' started by JimGunn, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. lucky

    lucky Active Member

    I think khabib will keep same gameplan for everyone and go for takedowns on all. He fears no one on the mat
    OnTheO likes this.
  2. JimGunn

    JimGunn Active Member

    Mark Cuban sold AXS TV recently and apparently the new owners fired the AXS TV Fights crew, so LFA 76 this Friday is the last show unless they get picked up by ESPN+ or somewhere else. Maybe they'll end up on Fight Pass since they are such a great feeder for the UFC.:
  3. JimGunn

    JimGunn Active Member

  4. JimGunn

    JimGunn Active Member

  5. Will

    Will Administrator Staff Member

    Ufc could take a page out of these guys books on how to do weigh ins right.

  6. JimGunn

    JimGunn Active Member

    KSW 50 Risk $155.00

    Phil De Fries (-155) vs Luis Henrique $155.00 for $100.00
  7. JimGunn

    JimGunn Active Member

  8. JimGunn

    JimGunn Active Member

    The Gianni interview is fascinating. Did you know that he brought the ideas of "steam & wiseguys & sharps" to the MMA betting space? Yes, he literally said that. My head almost exploded ten times listening to this. And I'm only 39 minutes in. I have no idea if Gianni goes on for the entire 2 and 3/4 hours of this podcast but I am willing to find out.

    Update- I'm now one hour and twenty minutes into this interview and Gianni is explaining how he derives his implied win probabilities for each fighter. He says he follows a scientific approach and had a computer programmer for 7 or 8 years and built and improved a model where they input a lot of data like opponent's record, win & finish percentages, striking data, subs vs knockouts, age, reach, stance, what gyms they train at and a whole bunch of other things for each fighter and the program spits out what he calls a power rating and a win percentage and whether the total should be 1½ or 2½. Then he compares it to the odds from the bookies and bets where he had an edge.

    It sounds like a really precise and smart answer. I'm sure that smart people could create such a model and input data like that. After you make some big assumptions and create the algorithm and assign values for the different variables it's mostly just a lot of data input after that. Of course the value of any model depends on a bunch of assumptions of what variables matter and what weight each one should have versus the others and how they all interact together so the value of any model itself is always extremely questionable. Two issues though: 1- I simply don't believe him. I don't think the algorithm exists. I think he's a sharp talker and is just making it all up because it sounds smart. 2- Even if someone created such a model, there is no reason to think it would be of any use rather than simply lead you to some dubious conclusions if you slavishly followed it. In any case, I don't think any model would be successful to bet MMA if you used it as is without also following the sport closely and knowing a lot about the fighters like many fans do and pro gamblers don't. Maybe I'm just a skeptic.
    OnTheO, BT and punisherind like this.
  9. mmaed

    mmaed Member

    Well that’s funny because if he has enough intellect to actually seek out an approach like that for sports betting you would think at some point he would realize it’s more effective to watch tape. I’m guessing he’s been around sports betting long enough to realize there is modeling involved in general and thinks it sounds smart for marketing purposes to claim that he’s doing it.
    marzwoody and punisherind like this.
  10. JimGunn

    JimGunn Active Member

    I must be mentally ill because I listened to all 2 hours and 45 minutes of this podcast of which Gianni talked almost non-stop for 2 hours and 40 minutes of it. Did you know that when he was a child that Gianni's uncle told him he was going to the zoo and instead took him to the race track where there were horses? Now you do!
    punisherind likes this.
  11. punisherind

    punisherind Moderator Foundation Member

    Lmao thanks for taking one for the team and listening to that thing, Jim.

    And i agree that a stats based model would not be as effective as watching tape for mma. Essentially the model would be doing mmamath.
    BT likes this.
  12. bjpenn85

    bjpenn85 Member

    I also agree. In research, a big problem investigating people who are very different to each other, heterogeneity, makes numbers difficult to analyze.

    For instance, how well would Poiriers takedown defence stack up to Khabib, when theres no numbers to collect from Poirier prior opponents since he has mostly fought strikers?

    There are no numbers available to make the algorithm.

    So its complete horse shit.

    But you have indicators like reach over 7.5 inches = 70% chance of winning, or 35+ age increases chance of loosing by TKO etc, strikes landed per min, are some numbers who holds value.

    But at the end of the day, its too many factors who need to be combined together with a lot of assumptions.

    And even if you got all things correct, judges may screw you over or the fighter may not show up, which happens a lot in MMA.
    omalley21, BT and punisherind like this.
  13. marzwoody

    marzwoody Active Member

    Gianni is a hack. you just need to take one look at him to realize that.
    omalley21 and BT like this.
  14. BT

    BT Active Member

    We talking about Gianni the Greek aka VR aka Vegas Runner, aka don't call me Vegas Runner anymore, here?

    A sharp dude back over at sd once said years ago that capping mma is "qualitative not quantitative" that's the best way I can sum it up. I'm not claiming to be the sharpest dude in the world or anything but empirical evidence in this sport, like watching tape, knowing your participants by studying them in their fights w/ your own eyes, is far more valuable than crunching numbers like maybe guys do in baseball with fangraphs and sabrmetrics, shit like that. Mma and boxing don't work like that. Like @marzwoody said, if I'm thinking of the same guy, take one look at this dude's whitened teeth and fake tan and you'll know he's a suspect dude, lol.
  15. punisherind

    punisherind Moderator Foundation Member

    One has to wonder how he got this gig as the official ufc tipster with those looks, his accent, the wiseguy gimmick, and his past reputation. Comes across as pure comedy. This guy talks shit about offshore bettors and then he boasts about hitting low limit openers at dimes. Not to mention that time he claimed to hit a 5d opener that never actually existed. Maybe he has some dirt on uncle dana?
    marzwoody, bjpenn85, BT and 1 other person like this.
  16. BT

    BT Active Member

    If I'm thinking of the right guy, he's been around Vegas and the gambling world for a long time. so it's possible he knows Dana just from running in the same circles. Also he has a history of hanging around the Mayweather gym and back in the day Floyd said that Dana used to hang around him and ask for sponsorships or some shit, too. Not out of the question that these two, who are probably around the same age, know some shit about each other. Except Dana has a lot more to lose. Makes sense when you put it like that.

    Not to mention there might be a blackjack connection as well.. Idk maybe I'm getting too conspiracy theorist w/ this shit, but maybe it could be something who knows.
    bjpenn85 likes this.
  17. Mirinquads

    Mirinquads Active Member Staff Member

    Dana is on the regular using Papa Roach in promo material and had "face the pain" as the theme song of the org for the longest time.. I mean, feels like Gianni is right in line with his tastes in general, not like he's taking the classiest route in life in general
  18. marzwoody

    marzwoody Active Member

    Exactly lol. that stuff might work with other sports but mma is a different game. I still cringe a bit when I hear people call mma a sport.
    BT likes this.
  19. mmaed

    mmaed Member

    Highly doubt it’s blackmail. My best theory, to try to sum it up: how much does the average gambler know about gambling from a technical perspective? Basically nothing. If you presented it from a technical perspective, how much would that perspective appeal to 99 percent just winging their bets? Probably very little. It could even be counter productive. Imagine your typical “just bleed” on forehead gambler(exaggeration, but not a tremendous one) listening to something that would actually require them to put in some thought. It might turn them off. So why not have a guy that is mostly entertainment speaking in a way that the average person can digest? Throw in some “experience in Vegas” or whatever he claims and you have the basic criteria for the job. Of course public speaking ability, ability to communicate, whatever is probably the what they are looking for.

    That’s more or less how you get Gianni imo.
  20. punisherind

    punisherind Moderator Foundation Member

    You have the right guy, formerly vegas runner
    BT likes this.

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