Literature.

Will

Administrator
Staff member
You sure you read the entiiiire series? I'm pretty sure there were well over 100 of those DL books. Of course, the reason I know this is because I read most of them as well back when I was a kid with a library card. Now that I'm an adult though, I'm not sure how they'd hold up. I haven't looked at them in years and didn't care enough to stay current when they rebooted the series a while back. I actually met Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman at a convention way back when and got them to autograph a book. A big problem for me is that I read their "Annotated Chronicles" and I remember them talking in the margins about how all they really did was take generic D&D archetypes and flesh out their personalities. For me, it kind of ruined the magic a little bit. Having said all that... Raistlin is one of the coolest characters I've ever come across in a fantasy series.

Hah, man you guys really know how to press my nerd buttons.
Guilty as charged. I read the main books and some of the offshoots.
Also played the dragonlance games and got my hands on some of the comics.

Like you said, unsure if they would stand the test of time.

The other series I use to read when I was younger was the GOR series. I loved it at the time because I could read some thinly veiled fantasy porn mixed with a good dose of carnage. In hindsight my delicate younger eyes were probably scared from some of the depictions.

 

Das Jax

Member
Guilty as charged. I read the main books and some of the offshoots.
Also played the dragonlance games and got my hands on some of the comics.

Like you said, unsure if they would stand the test of time.

The other series I use to read when I was younger was the GOR series. I loved it at the time because I could read some thinly veiled fantasy porn mixed with a good dose of carnage. In hindsight my delicate younger eyes were probably scared from some of the depictions.

Hah, I've never heard of the Gor series, but I like the honesty ;)
 

Das Jax

Member
Makes sense. Kinda the same problem I have with some of the Russian books.. It's like a stream of consciousness basically of some guys thoughts, and stories just going on and going on.. Can be hard to grasp the red line. Maybe I should actually get these things in my native language, but I think some things get lost when a book has to be translated through 2 languages. Plus my language is kinda flat and can be hard to express things as well as in english.

The Iliad & Odyssey - are these brutal to get through?
Classic Russian novels are dense as balls... but there's still a definite narrative. The Prince is more akin to a text book. Both the Iliad and Odyssey are more accessible than some of the standard Russian Works (Brother's Karamazov, Anna Karanina, War and Peace, etc.)... but not by much. Like I said, there are soooo many more accessible classics that are amazing books that you should read before trying to digest those giant tomes. I'm not saying you shouldn't read them, I personally enjoy them a lot, it's just that they're so hardcore that I'd worry you'd burn out and give up. Hit up those Jack London novels I mentioned. I have yet to find someone who wasn't at least a little blown away by Seawolf.

Also, for the record, I couldn't disagree with TNG more. I've read a lot of books in my day and I invariably find that the vast majority of classics are well-worth their reputation. The three exceptions (in my very subjective opinion, of course) are Catcher in the Rye, Of Mice and Men, and The Great Gatsby... maybe Sound and Fury as well. These three books (especially CITR) get so much praise and I think they're overrated garbage.
 
Also, for the record, I couldn't disagree with TNG more. I've read a lot of books in my day and I invariably find that the vast majority of classics are well-worth their reputation. The three exceptions (in my very subjective opinion, of course) are Catcher in the Rye, Of Mice and Men, and The Great Gatsby... maybe Sound and Fury as well. These three books (especially CITR) get so much praise and I think they're overrated garbage.
I'm not sure how much more I could disagree with you, either, since not only do I think plenty of classics lack any sort of appeal beyond their status, (no idea why anyone would want to subject themselves to, say, Gone With the Wind beyond wanting to stroke their own egos), but the Sound & the Fury is one which I'd highlight particularly. Amazing novel, one of the best. Lots of people dislike Catcher in the Rye but I've always enjoyed it.
 

Mirinquads

Active Member
Staff member
Love to stroke my ego til it's nice and engorged. Then i march around and slap things in my domicile around with it.
Will check out the dystopia you mentioned, I think this genre is sorely lacking in most other media. I guess because it can obviously be depressing as shit, but the possibilities are endless within it.
 

Das Jax

Member
Sound and Fury has its defenders... I'm just not one of them. Having said that, it's nowhere near as bad as CITR. If you really want to defend the rambling inner monologue of a whiny rich kid and his half-hearted attempts at naval gazing, I'm more than willing to read your thoughts, but I have yet to meet anyone who's opinion I respected that would defend it. I'm actually somewhat convinced that the only reason anyone's even heard of the damn book is because Salinger became a recluse and, most importantly, people had to read it when they were freshman/sophomores in high school. Not being actual readers, they just latch onto it because they're familiar with it and they think it gives them some sort of gravitas to claim it as a personal favorite (in the same way people often claim to be hardcore Bob Dylan fans).

I've never read Gone With the Wind, but I'd be surprised to hear it referred to as a classic. When I use that word myself, I'm more or less referring to the books that make up the Western Canon (for those unfamiliar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_canon#Works) as well as maybe a few other titles of more recent significance. I'm curious as to what else you've read that you found disappointing?

Edit: I honestly don't even hate those titles that much (except for CITR), I just think they're overrated and it bothers me that they get so much attention (even now) when so many other worthy titles get overlooked.
 
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I think this genre is sorely lacking in most other media.
You want to see some real fucking dystopia? Watch Now and Then, Here and There. It's one of the most depressing anime I've ever seen though, so be forewarned. Also, watch the sub, not the dub. It's about groups of kids on two separate sides of a battle for water, on a desert planet where there is almost none.

 
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Sound and Fury has its defenders... I'm just not one of them. Having said that, it's nowhere near as bad as CITR. If you really want to defend the rambling inner monologue of a whiny rich kid and his half-hearted attempts at naval gazing, I'm more than willing to read your thoughts, but I have yet to meet anyone who's opinion I respected that would defend it. I'm actually somewhat convinced that the only reason anyone's even heard of the damn book is because Salinger became a recluse and, most importantly, people had to read it when they were freshman/sophomores in high school. Not being actual readers, they just latch onto it because they're familiar with it and they think it gives them some sort of gravitas to claim it as a personal favorite (in the same way people often claim to be hardcore Bob Dylan fans).

I've never read Gone With the Wind, but I'd be surprised to hear it referred to as a classic.
When I use that word myself, I'm more or less referring to the books that make up the Western Canon (for those unfamiliar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_canon#Works) as well as maybe a few other titles of more recent significance. I'm curious as to what else you've read that you found disappointing?

Edit: I honestly don't even hate those titles that much (except for CITR), I just think they're overrated and it bothers me that they get so much attention (even now) when so many other worthy titles get overlooked.
I'm surprised to hear otherwise.
 

Mirinquads

Active Member
Staff member
You want to see some real fucking dystopia? Watch Now and Then, Here and There. It's one of the most depressing anime I've ever seen though, so be forewarned. Also, watch the sub, not the dub. It's about groups of kids on two separate sides of a battle for water, on a desert planet where there is almost none.

Will give it a whirl. If it's sadder than Grave of the Fireflies, I will send you a picture of my engorged Ego.
 

Das Jax

Member
I'm surprised to hear otherwise.
Not to knock you, but it's not really talked about that much. It was a popular book in its day, but the only reason it's remembered now is because of the movie. The Wizard of Oz and The Princess Bride would be parallel situations. They're noteworthy in the cultural sense because of the cinema... but not really that significant for their literary merits alone. Again, I'm not saying books of this type aren't good... they're just not classics and I thought that's what we were talking about.
 

marzwoody

Active Member
How is a book considered a "classic" though? like what time frame does it have to be released in to be considered classic? seems silly to me
 
Not to knock you, but it's not really talked about that much. It was a popular book in its day, but the only reason it's remembered now is because of the movie. The Wizard of Oz and The Princess Bride would be parallel situations. They're noteworthy in the cultural sense because of the cinema... but not really that significant for their literary merits alone. Again, I'm not saying books of this type aren't good... they're just not classics and I thought that's what we were talking about.
Uh huh. How many classics do you think Gone With the Wind beats out in terms of score on aggregate sites? How many best-of lists does it appear on?

Wizard of Oz and Princess Bride are completely different situations because they weren't (or, aren't) as highly esteemed. Stupid to argue subjective definitions with you though so I'll stop here.
 
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Das Jax

Member
Uh huh. How many classics do you think Gone With the Wind beats out in terms of score on aggregate sites? How many best-of lists does it appear on?

Wizard of Oz and Princess Bride are completely different situations because they weren't (or, aren't) as highly esteemed. Stupid to argue subjective definitions with you though so I'll stop here.
To be clear, I'm not knocking any of those titles, but the reason anyone's ever heard of them is because they were important movies... not because they were important books.
 

Mirinquads

Active Member
Staff member
Let's not get bogged down with what's classics or not. I really not care a whole lot about critics and their definition of shit, they are even worse then music nerds arguing over whether a song is minimal deep tech or dark tech house, no one fucking cares - as long as it's good stuff.


I read I have no mouth and I must scream -

SPOILER - dont read unless you read the thing.
Very heavy religious over tones - Man creates their super computer (Deity, pretty much) for mans purpose (destruction), Deity ends up hating it self, thus hating the whole of man kind as a result. Torture -> Big monkey penis sex -> Torture -> Walk through the valley of tears to your salvation -> Ofcourse no salvation for you them. Basically the biblical jewish story, they get tried over and over, but never achieve salvation (Because this 'god' is created by humanity, thus evil) - Antagonist finally decides to take control, kills off the group members. Is he a hero or a monster conundrum. Condemned to suffer for all eternity as a sightless slobbering blob. I'm guessing this guy isn't a big fan of mankind as a whole. The Author has some serious literary firepower though - Liked the part where the AM entered the protagonist's mind, that was really uncomfortable to read. Liked his bleak prose kind of style.. I didn't know this guy also wrote A boy and his Dog which I have heard about, I will read that next I think.
 

Das Jax

Member
For the record, I think all Harlan Ellison's shit is pretty creepy and wouldn't recommend it, but he's a fascinating individual and there's an absolutely amazing documentary on him that you should definitely check out if you're interested. Robin Williams, of all people, actually talks about him quite a bit.

Here's a favorite clip of mine:

 

Mirinquads

Active Member
Staff member
Creepy indeed, that's the way I like it.

"I sell my soul, but at the highest rates. I don't take a piss without being paid." Lol, I like this asshole already, not too wrong about him not loving humanity it would seem.

Do you agree with him Jax? Weren't you in the business?
 
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